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02 Nov 1998 |
Member Bios |
The comics-pro mailing list is an Internet mailing list for comics professionals. Started in December of 1994, the list includes over 250 members from all walks of the comics business. List members include Xeric Foundation winners, self-publishers, freelancers, active creators for the Big Two and many others. The following is the "welcome" message sent to new subscribers:
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- Is the list still up? I haven't gotten any messages for weeks...
- Why don't all of my messages get sent out over the list?
- I've been trying to unsubscribe for days. Why do you keep sending me messages?
- I see forwarded bounced messages from time to time -- why don't you forward mine?
- How many people are on this list? Is there a way to see who is on it?
- When I send out bulk mailings which include the list, they never show up.
- You seem to have many mailing addresses. Why is that?
- Did you know that the instructions for unsubscribing at the bottom of the messages are wrong?(Updated 02 Nov)
- Why doesn't the list allow digest-mode?(Updated 02 Nov)
0. Hey, Mike. How does this list work, anyway?
The list uses a fairly common piece of public domain software called Majordomo to do most of the work. You contact the list server address with commands for such things as subscribing, getting the names on the list, or unsubscribing. Messages are automatically sent to all addresses on the list.
In general, it's pretty hands-off. I don't edit or approve the messages -- what you send goes out (unless there's a mailing problem).
Comics-Pro is configured as a "closed" list. Only members of the list can send and receive messages. This prevents SuzyXXX443@hotmail.com from telling us all about herself and her sexy friends. (Why is it all of these spam-strumpets are named Suzy?)
Unfortunately, it can also prevent you from sending mail from another address other than the one you used to subscribe. Majordomo is supposed to be able to tell the difference between mrmeyer@netcom.com and mrmeyer@netcom3.netcom.com, but that feature seems to be mostly broken on the (kinda obsolete) Majordomo release which Netcom uses.
Mail which cannot be sent for whatever reason is bounced to the list owner (me) for disposition. Also bounced are requests for subscription or unsubscription which originate from a different address than the requested added/deleted address. I have a special password for the listserver which allows me to manually add/delete any old address I want. If I get a bounced request to subscribe or unsubscribe, that's what I do. The trick is getting the time to manage the list in this fashion.
I try to log in daily, but sometimes cannot do so, or cannot handle all of the list business at once. Some requests can be delayed for days, which is why you want to use the automated server whenever possible. See the subscribe/unsubscribe instructions above.
Hope this explains how things work in general. I'll cover some of the weird things which can happen below...
1. Is the list still up? I haven't gotten any messages for weeks...
If you haven't been getting messages for a while, there are two likely reasons:
- You've been (temporarily) dropped off the list by me
- Your ISP is rejecting the mail for some reason.
I sometimes drop people off the list for admin reasons. The main admin reason is that the mailer daemon is unable to deliver the mail to you. When that happens, every message coming over the list generates a bounce message from the mailer daemon. This causes me grief -- if three or four people have this problem at once, which isn't uncommon, I get three or four bounced mail messages with each message on the list, interleaved with the list messages and with my personal mail. There have been days of high traffic where I log in to be inundated with 200 mail messages, most of them useless bounce messages. I have to sort them out by hand at present, and this causes me to do things like forget to phone my mom on her birthday or miss the 8:00 movie showing, or worse yet, accidently delete genuine personal mail. My social life is bleak enough without this happening, and you aren't getting messages anyway when it happens, so I remove you from the list. Nothing personal, and I'll happily re-add you if you ask, or you can re-add yourself through the listserver.
Why would your ISP reject list mail?
Sometimes it's because you have some sort of nasty loop going on which is upsetting the mailer daemon. On AOL accounts, you may well have overflowed your mailbox. Sometimes it's because your account has disappeared or moved and you've forgotten to remove the old one from the list.
If your ISP has a max limit on the size of your mailbox, I recommend that you unsubscribe whenever you are not going to be able to pick up mail, and resubscribe when you can. Traffic is unpredictable, and your mailbox can fill up quickly.
We did have a problem with most AOL accounts, as AOL was refusing all bulk precedence (mailing list) mail from Netcom's domain due to a dispute over anti-Spam policies. That eventually got fixed, and it looks like all of the ISPs who were refusing Netcom mail are now accepting it.
2. Why don't all of my messages get sent out over the list?
The listserver software will bounce certain messages:
- Messages from any address not on the list.
- Messages which contain 'subscribe' or 'unsubscribe' in the Subject line.
- Message with a To: header longer than 1024 characters.
Bounced messages get sent to owner-comics-pro, which is me. In general, Majordomo will let me easily pass on the messages which should go to the list. Unfortunately, Netcom's version of Majordomo has been hacked to eliminate such useful features, ostensibly for security reasons. I will manually forward messages, but at my convenience.
Sometimes I'll decide that a message doesn't warrent the effort, usually something adding a 'me too' note to an on-topic thread, or something dragging on an off-topic thread. This is more a convenience thing than an editorial thing, but the best way to avoid it is to make sure you are sending your message from the address you have subscribed.
3. I've been trying to unsubscribe for days. Why do you keep sending me messages?
If you followed the instructions at the bottom of messages, telling you to send requests to comics-pro@netcom.com, this is what happens:
The message bounces to the list owner. It can't be processed until I pick up my mail, and manually perform the unsubscribe/subscribe. If you are frantic to unsubscribe because messages are flooding in, this probably won't satisfy you much. If you send multiple messages, with increasing frequency, and little sarcastic comments about how you want off the list or you'll kill my cat, you might also find less than satisfactory results.
Remember, bounced messages get processed at my convenience. That means when I feel like it, for better or worse. I try not to abuse that, but I really love my cat.
Always the best way to unsubscribe is to send your unsubscribe message to listserv@majordomo.netcom.com. Remember, no subject line, and just use the words unsubscribe comics-pro. You don't have to write down your address -- Majordomo will get that from the message header.
A bit more problematic is if you need to unsubscribe an account by sending mail from another account. Those always bounce to me for approval, so may be delayed a couple of days. Nothing to do about those, sorry.
4. I see forwarded bounced messages from time to time -- why don't you forward mine?
Forwarding bounced messages is time consuming, so I tend to be fairly inconsistant about it. If I have time, I do. If not, I may mail you to let you know your mail bounced and why. Sometimes I don't have time to do either.
Also, I sometimes need to unsubscribe the mrmeyer@netcom.com account from the list, so I can see my personal messages in all the clutter. Majordomo isn't supposed to work like this, but the Netcom version doesn't allow the list owner to post to the list if they aren't subscribed. This was one of the things that they broke when they 'upgraded' the package for security. So, if I'm not subscribed, I have to forward the message to my twist account, and forward it again to the list. Or, I have to subscribe, forward to the list, and unsubscribe again. Mucho hassle.
Please, keep an eye out for your messages. If they don't make it to the list, make sure your mailing address is okay, your header isn't too huge, and that you don't say 'unsubscribe' in the subject line or as the first word in the message body. Then, resend it. Contact me if you have repeated problems -- I'll have the bounce messages, and can troubleshoot the problem.
5. How many people are on this list? Is there a way to see who is on it?
Last time I checked, there were more than 250, and may be close to 300 by now, as we've had a lot of new arrivals. See what I mean -- this could take a lot of time to run.
You can see who is on the list with the majordomo command 'who comics-pro'. Send it to listserv@majordomo.netcom.com, just like anything else.
I recommend that if you are having problems with some messages bouncing, etc. that you do this, and check for the exact mailing address which Majordomo uses.
6. When I send out bulk mailings which include the list, they never show up.
Majordomo bounces any mail message with a more than 1024 character header. When these bounce to me, I can't even forward them to the list, at least not with this version of majordomo. I try to notify you if this happens, but sometimes will be delayed in doing so.
7. You seem to have many mailing addresses. Why is that?
I have no life. I do, however, have a t-shirt company, a comic company, and a day job, as well as a personal account at Netcom. Just part and parcel of the life of your typical info-age single nerd-boy. I don't own a suit, but I have 4 e-mail accounts. Sad, isn't it?
8. Did you know that the instructions for unsubscribing at the bottom of the messages are wrong?
Not any more. The new instructions are correct, and include pointers to this site.
9. Why doesn't the list allow digest-mode?
Actually it does, just not through Netcom. Jerry Stratton has been very generous with his time and computer resources in setting up a digest version of the list at his Hoboes.com site. You send your messages to the digest there instead of at Netcom, they get funnelled through a secret Swiss e-mail account to the list at Netcom, and everyone gets the message. Digest folks receive the digests when they fill up, or every couple of days, whichever comes first. Only catch is that you have to subscribe/unsubscribe explicitly to the digest server, and that's where you send the messages, too.
Why not just do a normal Majordomo digest, instead of all this trouble? Easy -- Netcom doesn't support/allow it. In general, they aren't very enthusiastic about Majordomo mailing lists any more, though I must admit, they processed my last request the next day, rather than 2 months later, which was a pleasant surprise.
Frankly, the only reason I still use Netcom for this list is that it's included free as part of my account. I would like to move the list somewhere else where I can offer digest and regular modes, remotely tweak the configuration, and all the things that normal Majordomo list admins get to do.
Any proposals for doing this will be considered, long as they
- don't cost me money, and
- are implemented on a long-term basis.
If I move the list, I want it to stay moved -- stability is important. This means it needs to be someplace relatively public. The list hasn't been moved in 4 years, so any successor arrangement should be planned for at least that long. This probably means it shouldn't be hosted at someone's work account, or on any particularly small or personal ISP/network node/majordomo server.
Like I said, I'm open to suggestions.
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